Teaching beyond the curriculum

Transcript

Michael Kaufman [00:00:02] I'm going to take it all the way back. And this is our very first episode, so welcome. We're your hosts. We are hosts...

Mike Conrad [00:00:10] Hosts...

Michael Kaufman [00:00:10] I don't need a big black bug, bit a big black bear.

Mike Conrad [00:00:15] And we don't want to do our...

Michael Kaufman [00:00:16] aluminum linoleum.

Mike Conrad [00:00:17] I don't want to turn into, like, cheesy radio voice like, “welcome from PBS....” –I don't want to do that, but. We're recording this. Yeah. 

[ music ]

Mike Conrad Hey, teachers from PBS's Student Reporting Labs, this is Teacher Reporting Labs. Oh, are you seriously going to do that?

Michael Kaufman: I know right? I thought you'd like that.

Mike Conrad: We're shaking it up by putting teachers and educators like us behind the mic. And what we're going to do is we're going to sit with you and report back on all kinds of topics and triumphs and challenges that you and we are facing in the classroom, and some great candid conversations.

Michael Kaufman [00:00:52] And that's kind of what we're doing. But this is our first episode, so welcome. We are your hosts. I'm Michael Kaufman.

Mike Conrad [00:00:58] And I am Mike Conrad. Mike and I have now known each other for a decade.

Michael Kaufman [00:01:01] Which is crazy.

Mike Conrad [00:01:02] which is crazy. But couldn't imagine a better person to be sitting across the microphone with us to do this podcast for you all.

Michael Kaufman [00:01:08] Ditto.

Mike Conrad [00:01:09] I teach at Royal Oak High School, which is just north of Detroit. I teach TV, video and film. I've been teaching at the school for about 14 years, CTE certified course. And I am a very proud member of the Student Reporting Labs. For the past, I'd say maybe 11 years...

Michael Kaufman [00:01:23] Yeah. And I'm Michael Kaufman. I teach in L'Anse Creuse public schools. I started off as an acting teacher, really. And, kind of transitioned into this accidentally by how many of us do. And, now I teach broadcast journalism and broadcast media in L'Anse Creuse. This first episode is about teaching beyond the curriculum. So the stuff that happens after school; kind of like what we're doing right now. 

Mike Conrad [00:01:46] Yeah, And I think it's really easy to always try to tie stresses and struggles and, all of our extra time into what we're doing and just for curriculum, when a lot of times it's about trying to figure out a way to make those connections with those kids, let them know that sometimes the curriculum, while it's wildly important, the connections are going to help that curriculum get delivered. So how do we do that?

Michael Kaufman [00:02:06] 100% ...how do we do it?

Mike Conrad [00:02:07] We've got Krista McKim, and she teaches broadcast journalism, yearbook and AP lang and composition at Rockville High School in Maryland, which is right outside of Washington, DC, right in the backyard of SRL.

Michael Kaufman [00:02:18] And we also have Doctor Sequoyah Wharton, and he has a digital film, broadcast journalism and visual arts teacher at Brentwood High School in Brentwood, New York. He has a skills trade background, and that kind of makes it really cool. I love when teachers come in with a very different background, other than just coming in straight as educators, because they bring that flavor to the curriculum and to their teaching, and so they become much more passionate, I think. And I can't wait for you to hear from both of them.

Mike Conrad [00:02:43] All right. Let's take a listen.

[ music ] 

Sequoyah [00:02:49] Hi, Krista.

Krista [00:02:50] Hi, Sequoyah.

Sequoyah [00:02:53] So I realize we don't really know each other that well. But I think we've been at a few Student Reporting Labs webinars, maybe even last summer–but, you know, anyway, it's really great to actually have a nice conversation with you in real time, finally. You know, to have an opportunity at least to talk about, some things beyond the classroom, you know?

Krista [00:03:15] I guess for me, everything I do in all of my classes is how does this help the students outside of school? And that's a question I constantly ask myself. What am I teaching and how is it going to help them long term? We do a lot of partnerships and my school, I mean PBS, obviously one of them, Student Reporting Labs, but League of Women Voters. We've done some work with them to help the students understand the electoral process and how to advocate effectively for what they care about. I teach my AP Lang class as an advocacy course because it's nonfiction writing, and so the kids get to really dive into issues that matter to them, and we actually work to try and problem solve: how can we...I mean, I wish we could fix all the issues they want to deal with, but how can they start chipping away at that, that big issue that they care about?

Sequoyah [00:04:12] Very nice. Yeah. It's amazing... like, you know, we do so much, that we don't even think about. I'm still getting my, you know– teaching as my second career. You know, I have a skills trade background where I used to lead construction and demolition jobs, and I thought that was challenging at the time, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to get into teaching, you know? But teaching is even more challenging in some ways. But, but at the same time, I brought a lot of my skills, with people and building teams within the school, which have been really helpful. Talking about that, I had a question where, you know, what do you think is the number one skill, that you find yourself instilling in your students that maybe you never thought about when you took this job?

Krista [00:04:59] Public speaking. That is...that is my baby. So many times, like, the speaking and listening skills kind of get tossed to the side in classes because people are worried about anxiety, which is a real thing, or they're worried about how much time it will take. And for me, every kid needs to know how to get up in front of someone, whether that's their boss later on and they're asking for a raise, or whether that's the city council is gonna tear down their neighborhood and they need to stand up for it. That skill is what I want every single one of my kids to walk away from. And something I'm very proud of, very proud of, is –minus the Covid year—every single year, every single one of my students has given a speech.

Sequoyah [00:05:50] Yeah, well, yeah. Absolutely. Giving our students voice is our first and primary job as broadcast journalist, right? You know, and allowing them to speak to others, you know, like you said, you know, I like to have legislators come in or other teachers come in or admin come into my classroom where, where a lot of teachers are like, oh, man, you let the principal in your room willingly? You know, you know, or you let the superintendent come in your room willingly, you know? And I'm like, yeah, of course. It's a comfort that I think journalism or the arts in general have with others and building that community and things that our particular job, I feel allows us to be together, you know, or be one, which is great. I know that's kind of corny, but it's true.

Krista [00:06:37] It's true. I know I'm with you on that.

Sequoyah [00:06:41] So, I guess before you got into teaching, what is something you wish you had known earlier, either before your teaching career or getting into it? You know, what are some things that, you know, come to mind?

Krista [00:06:53] Oh, for me, we're told that there's, like, you're supposed to do teaching a certain way. A lot of it isn't science based. So that was something I learned early on, because I'm really interested in neuroscience...is like, why are we doing what we're doing? And there's a lot of great people out there trying their best to make education amazing, and everyone's working really hard, but there's not one way to do it. I am an energetic, I am out there, and I am like, yes, my kids laugh at me because I, like, get super geeky and excited. And then, my best friend who's a teacher is like a stoic kind of English teacher. But both of us love our kids, and the kids love us because they know that–that we’re true to ourselves. And I think. I wish I had been told earlier, like, be true to who you are.

Sequoyah [00:07:50] Yeah, that's definitely good advice.

Krista [00:07:52] But what you said reminded me of a question that Mindy from Clinton, New York, sent in. And she asked, how can teachers balance structure and flexibility in their teaching approach to allow for organic moments of discovery and exploration?

Sequoyah [00:08:10] I hate to answer your question with a question, but, you know, how do you evoke creativity and self-expression in certain classes? You know, like, so say it's a math class, you know, how are you doing that? And, I mean, I have ideas, but but I'm, you know, how do you do that? Right? So, it really takes a teacher to think outside the box and really maybe pair up with other subjects. You know, that cross collaboration within the school, right.

Krista [00:08:42] I'm using a lot of information from The Learning Scientists, which is a great website. Everyone should check them out. They're amazing. They're for cognitive scientists who try and get research from neuroscience into teachers' hands and help them understand how kids' brains work. And so I've been doing a lot of work with helping my students learn how they learn. And then I told my students, okay, you can vote on something that I'm going to learn. They eventually all the classes decided on me learning how to play the guitar, but I went and I picked up the guitar from the music teacher, and I talked to her about it. And then I give the kids updates like, all right, you were supposed to spend an hour on my work last week, so I spent an hour on the guitar last week. And then at the end of the quarter,  they know I'm going to perform for them using all the techniques that I learned. And I've never picked up a guitar. I'm not musical like this is quite the challenge for me, but being vulnerable and doing what you ask of the students, I think, gets them excited and helps them be imaginative and discover new things too. Like, look, my teacher, who's 40, is still out there trying to learn new things and she looks ridiculous. Maybe I could try something new too.

Sequoyah [00:09:59] It's true. Yeah, I yeah, that vulnerable part is so important.

[ record scratch ]

Conrad [00:10:04] Okay, let's interrupt this for now [ laughter ]. Kaufman's been wanting a record scratch, so, like, put it right there. I love the fact that learning guitar was brought up by the kids. And instead of saying, “oh, no, I could never do that,” or “I don't...I'm not a musical person,” or every other excuse that you could give a kid. She said, “yeah, let's do it.”

Kaufman [00:10:25] I love that

Conrad [00:10:25] Has that ever happened, has anything like that? Have your kids ever said something to you like that in your classroom?

Kaufman [00:10:29] So my students are always trying to get me to do crazy TikToks, right? So, I mean, it's never been go and learn something new. It's try something new, or like because I'm of an age that I'm a little older, they're always saying stuff like, “man, that's fire.” And I'll say, “man, that's fire” –is what? You know, they ate it. And I'm like, okay, so let's do: geriatrics learn how to actually speak teen. And they love it and they eat it up. And it's like, teach me what you know and I'll teach you what I know. And it's it's a back and forth. So it's not me learning the guitar, but it's still connections with students.

Conrad [00:11:02] Yeah. I think one of the things I love to do in my class, and I've been doing this now for a couple of years, is playlists. And when the kids come in to get to know them, I ask them to connect with me over a song that they like, and then I start listening. It seems so simple; oh, listen to the music that the kids like. Oh, this music these days. No, I, I just– it's just a simple way to show them that you care outside of assignments and grades and scores.

Kaufman [00:11:30] So let's get rid of the rubrics and let's talk about what else goes on beyond the curriculum...

Krista [00:11:35] We have to get to this question from Elaine from Rancho Cucamonga, California, because I love this question because, you have your doctorate. She asks about: what are the results of current studies and data, and what do they show us about effective learning environments and strategies, and how do you incorporate them even if they don't check that curriculum standard box?

Sequoyah [00:11:59] Yeah. You know, yeah, I was looking at that question myself. And it's funny, too. Like what? Current studies. There's so many studies regarding learning environment, strategies. You know, even my dissertation, I looked at– I did a comparative study where I looked at art programs and how they're either integrated into a school's curriculum or not. In New York, you have to have arts or music, part of your curriculum to graduate as a high school student. Comparatively, I did it to Florida school districts where the arts is not part of the program and you do not need arts to graduate. The comparative study showed that students who had arts involvement scored better on standardized tests. In essence, to answer Elaine’s question, you know, it makes it a more effective environment. What do you think?

Krista [00:12:47] Well, for me, I think in the education world, in particular, because that's where my expertise is, it could be in other places. We don't quite understand what science is, at least when it comes to educational research. There's a lot of misunderstanding between what's a case study where we look at just what one teacher does versus what's a causational study where we look at, did this cause that? And I think there's a lot of mixing up with that when we talk about research and education. And I think teachers get so overwhelmed. Like I still hear people talking about learning styles and that kids learn better auditory versus kinesthetic versus visual. And I'm like, no, no, no, that research has been thoroughly debunked. So it's about finding, like, the right resources, I think, for education. And again, I really love The Learning Scientists. I think they do great work. Johns Hopkins Cognitive Science Lab does great work. I'm also going to shout out The Center for Transformative Teaching and Learning, which is a bunch of teachers who got interested in neuroscience and started working with neuroscientists to get that information to teachers. But I think we have a big problem with burnout in teachers. And as you and I are talking, like field trips take time. Guest speakers take time. Finding diverse models takes time. Learning the different projects takes time. Like, all of this is incredibly time consuming. Reading research and how to apply it. It all takes time. Any teacher who's trying to make their classroom better, I encourage you to pick 1 or 2 things a year, and not try and do everything at once. And I still do that in my 15 years, is: every year at the beginning of the year, I'm like, okay, what's my thing I'm going to work on? Sometimes I will change mid-year. This year, my big thing that I wanted to work on was writing. And then we got, three, three months in and I was like, my kids are really depressed, really depressed. And I started doing this research about like, it's not just my kids. It's like huge depression rates across the country. And so I was like, okay, my goal was that, but I'm going to switch it. I'm going to learn more about well-being. And I found Doctor Santos's work. I don't know if you're familiar with her. She's from Yale. She has the most popular course ever called The Science of Well-Being, and she just made a curriculum for high school teachers about teaching kids how to take care of themselves. And so I was like, okay, that's my goal for this year. I'm going to help them learn how to take care of themselves. But that means I've set some things aside. I'm not doing as many guest speakers this year as I normally do. I'm not doing as many field trips as I normally do because this is my priority. And I think as we teach outside the curriculum, as we do all this stuff, we have to remember we can't do everything.

Sequoyah [00:15:41] Basically, what we're trying to take home here is that everybody needs to be involved, right? It's a big thing, you know, and it's easier. It's definitely easier said than done to make, just to make that community work. You know, it's a never ending, never ending battle, but for the good of our students.

Mike Conrad [00:16:04] I really enjoyed what they said there because everybody's classroom is different. And we can't just do the broad strokes, “hey everybody do this...”

Michael Kaufman [00:16:12] But you just have to be comfortable in your own shoes, right? So like and last year I learned something else that I find that students really enjoy seeing you trying something different with other teachers. So like, they had a little talent show, and I tap danced with a bunch of other teachers. Kids talked about that for like 2 or 3 weeks, and it was just something that they went, oh, you can do that. We didn't even know you could do that. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And let's, let's, you know, so what do you guys do? And speaking of trying new things, this is my first time doing a podcast. So I'm going to be talking to my students about this as an experience. And I hope it was a good experience for you who are listening. And I hope it was a good experience for you, Mike Conrad. 

Mike Conrad [00:16:50] Why thank you, Mike Kaufman. We are “the Mike’s...”

Michael Kaufman [00:16:56] ...hey, you wanted me to join in on that one.

Mike Conrad [00:16:58] Yeah, I know, but you didn't .

Michael Kaufman [00:16:59] I didn't, I blew it. 

Mike Conrad [00:17:00] because it's a bad idea.

Micahel Kaufman [00:17:03] All right, so coming up next, keep listening because we'll get better at this and, (will we? maybe)... One of our upcoming episodes is strategies for creating inclusive classroom environments. So that's pretty exciting.

Mike Conrad [00:17:17] And then we'll have another one, which I'm sure is going to be of vital interest to a lot of us: educator mental health and well-being. This podcast is produced by SRL’s Community Engagement Manager Emily Hope Dobkin, also known as Dobz, edited by Evan Gulock, who's one of my former students and SRL students. So it's wonderful to be alongside him as a colleague, and with support from lead podcast producer Briget Ganske. 

Michael Kaufman [00:17:39] and many thanks to SRL Editorial Director Marie Cusick and Executive Producer Leah Clapman 

[ music ] 

Michael Kaufman: You know, one of the most important things to me is food. And I got to tell you, my wife was going to put together a sandwich for me, and I said, you know what? I really just don't want the turkey and the cheese and the sauce...

Mike Conrad [00:18:03] I hate where you're going with this...

Michael Kaufman [00:18:05] It can't be a sandwich; it has to be something I would look at and go: 

Michael Kaufman and Mike Conrad: That's a wrap! [ laughter ]